Animal Rights Community Online

**Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:39 pm

_________________
"In relation to them, all people are Nazis; for the animals it is an eternal Treblinka."

benio

**Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:52 pm

Diana

[quote="benio"][quote="Diana"]

**Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:01 pm

_________________
"In relation to them, all people are Nazis; for the animals it is an eternal Treblinka."

benio

**Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:33 pm

Rivers

Most vegetarians definitely have a LOT more blood on their hands than vegans

**Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:38 pm

benio

**Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:48 pm

Diana

Actually, my experience is that vegans are very much aware of social issues. Most of the vegans I know are also very much into other social justice struggles, like racism, sexism and ageism.

Veganism is a social justice movement, and I think vegans realise this quickly - especially those who are into activism and not just sitting around wondering what their next meal will be. That is why one of their big concerns is the fact that that there are nazis and religious fundamentalists who use veganism and/or animal rights as part of their warped ideology.

Animal Rights vegans realise that humans are also animals, which is why one of their slogans is "Animal Liberation - Human Liberation".

I would prefer to march with people who are coherent, than people who give out mixed messages. Even if we are only ten. A strong coherent message is better than a mixed, weak and incoherent one.

Those vegetarians who chant "one can live without killing"... why do they continue participating in the killing then? They are aware, surely, of the murder that is involved in their dairy and egg products, not to mention their leather shoes or fur coats.

I don't know exactly what you mean when you raise the vivisection issue. Perhaps you could rephrase it to make sure I am not misunderstanding you and that we start talking in cross purposes.

**Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:56 pm

_________________
"In relation to them, all people are Nazis; for the animals it is an eternal Treblinka."

benio

**Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:16 pm

Diana

What is an "amoeba" word?

**Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:17 pm

_________________
"In relation to them, all people are Nazis; for the animals it is an eternal Treblinka."

David Olivier · Animal Guardian Joined: 23 Jan 2008 Posts: 51

**Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:30 pm

benio

**Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:35 pm

benio

**Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:45 pm

Diana

I don't understand how one can say that a vegan does not have less "blood" on their hands than a vegetarian. It is obvious. A vegan avoids as much as practicable (practicable, not practical), animal products, as well as products that have been, for instance, tested on animals.

A vegetarian eats animal products, with all the death and exploitation of animals that that implies, wears leather shoes/jackets, fur coats/accessories and does not avoid products tested on animals. All vegetarians are concerned with is a certain aspect of their diet. Vegans go further than their diet to englobe all animal exploitation.

So how is it possible for anyone to even consider that vegetarians do not have more "blood" on their hands than vegans? Vegan of course does not only refer to diet. Veganism refers to a way of life that encompasses much more than one's taste-buds. And goes on to naturally include all other forms of exploitation which include also non human animal exploitation.

I do not understand what "movement" David Olivier is talking about. We are not, I believe, in the same movement at all. And no, I am not a vegetarian. I am a vegan. You are having the same argument as we did when we were discussing your movement for the abolition of "meat". You were saying that whether we liked it or not, we were in that movement, because we are against killing animals for "meat". And I said that it's like saying that if there was a movement to abolish the rape of blonde women, but I was fighting for the abolition of the rape of ALL women, that I was naturally in the movement aimed at blonde women, because blonde women are part of all women. But I would not accept to be part of that movement, which excludes all women that are not blonde however "symbolic" blonde women may be.

To get back to vegetarians (which I was once), I do not think there is much difference between an omnivore and a vegetarian... only they are spelled differently.

**Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:18 pm

_________________
"In relation to them, all people are Nazis; for the animals it is an eternal Treblinka."

benio

**Posted:** Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:46 pm

Diana

Teenager? Why do you assume I am a teenager? I am probably older than you, I would imagine by quite a few years.

(I am surprised though to see that you brought up age. Ageism is no better than sexism.)

The definition of vegetarian is one who avoids eating animals. What definition do you have in your dictionaries??? Words mean something. You can't make them mean whatever you want them to do.

I will be around at VeggiePride in order to meet some people I have made appointments with. But I will not march, as I said. And if it is still allowed to take the microphone at the end of the day in order to speak, I will take it and make a speech.

I am looking forward to the day when people no longer use animals to make "meat" out of, but I will not participate in the "movement for the abolition of meat", at the exclusion of dairy products, eggs, honey, leather etc. "Meat" is not more important than "dairy" and I do not want to be part of a movement that makes some kind of hierarchy in animal exploitation.

Coherent is not an "amoeba" word. It also has a precise definition.

_________________
"In relation to them, all people are Nazis; for the animals it is an eternal Treblinka."